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Bret Cahill
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Saving |
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Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
At the other extreme a RAAM cyclist averages 350 miles/day and eats
25,000 calories/day. Since the farmer needs 36 gallons of petroleum
to grow enough food for a RAAM cyclist to make it across the country,
a net savings of 12 gallons would be possible by flying on a
Dreamliner.
A lot of it depends on your speed. If you stay below 15 mph you
really don't need to eat that much more.
Bret Cahill |
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hhc314@yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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On Jun 15, 1:05 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
At the other extreme a RAAM cyclist averages 350 miles/day and eats
25,000 calories/day. Since the farmer needs 36 gallons of petroleum
to grow enough food for a RAAM cyclist to make it across the country,
a net savings of 12 gallons would be possible by flying on a
Dreamliner.
A lot of it depends on your speed. If you stay below 15 mph you
really don't need to eat that much more.
Bret Cahill
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Interesting point Bret.
Still, don't forget to factor in the energy that is expended in
processing, transporting, and cooking the food, along with the cost of
disposal of agricultural wastes and the remediation of insecticides
and fertilizer residues. (some which is paid for at government
expense).
Face it, transportation by any physical means is very enegy costly.
Clearly, and reduction of significance in energy consumption mandates
there be decreases in travel and transportation.
Perhaps it's time for a return to the days when I was a boy, where
people walked to the store, most food products were unprocessed and
fresh, and roughly even only 1/4 of the population even owned a car
and even fewer had ever traveled by air, gone on a cruise, and only
fired up the hot water heater when they were about to take a bath.
Then too, in those days there was no such thing a suburbia, no malls,
and most of us lived in small communities that were to a large extent
self-sufficient.
Oddly enough, I don't recall this presenting any particular hardships
to anyone. (I'm simply reflecting on the days near the end of WWII,
perhaps the period between 1944 and 1950s, which I recall as some of
the best years that our country has ever experienced. People today
under the age of 50 cannot relate to this time, and this a sadly a
loss for them.)
If you had some special occasion or an emergency, some neighbor would
load you his car. Similarly, allow you to use his telephone, since
then there were only two phones on your street.
Local merchants would roam the streets with horse drawn carts selling
produce and fresh fish. The fish was gutted in cleaned for you while
you would watch, as was demanded by the houswifes and mothers in those
times. The ice to cool your "ice boxes" was also supplied on a horse
drawn cart, afer being harvested in mid-winter from a nearby lake, and
kept cool and frozen thoughout the summer by the use of insulation
composed of sawdust and wood chips. Then too, in those days there was
a junkman, who also made his collections of household scrap using a
horse drawn cart.
One thing that everyhad in those days was a radio, which was primarily
needed to keep track of what was going on in the area beyone our local
community. Of course, there were no TV sets.
Gas sold then for about 25 or 26 cents a gallon, and even when I was
working while in highschool, kerosene (the fuel of choice for space
heaters) sold for 20-cents a gallon. Diesel fuel, around 18-cents/gal.
Local movie theatres shut down over most of the summer, because their
was no air-conditioning plus due to the fact that that was the Polio
time of year. (During those days we worried more about the risk of
Polio than sexually transmitted diseases. Every kid that grew up
during those years had generally lost some friend who died from
Polio.)
Primitive as it may sound to todays youngsters, that was the life of
the middle-class in most of America. Today, we have many more gagets,
that all eat energy, but there are few that serve a legitimate need.
The most essential member of the community in those days was not some
politician or rock star, but the local doctor, who then still made
house calls. (The doctor owned a car, the basis of early Packard Car
commercials...usually but not always a Packard.)
Bret, a return to those days would not impose any hardship at all to
us older guys, but the concept alone may horrify the younger readers.
Also, a return to those days would certainly elminate the fuel
crisis.
Harry C. |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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After commuting 13 miles each way for two weeks I'm guessing I eat at
least $2 more/day and it's not some overpriced diet like Adkins. It's
mostly complex carbohydrates I fix myself, less than $1/lb.
Driving by myself would cost $4.50/day.
The bus would be $2/day, about the same as cycling.
The really green way to go would be to get an E bike. Just a few
cents of electricity each day.
Bret Cahill |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
At the other extreme a RAAM cyclist averages 350 miles/day and eats
25,000 calories/day. �Since the farmer needs 36 gallons of petroleum
to grow enough food for a RAAM cyclist to make it across the country,
a net savings of 12 gallons would be possible by flying on a
Dreamliner.
A gallon of gasoline contains.. ~30,000 kcal.. � A farmer is able to
produce significantly more than amount in the crop kcal. �(solar
energy inputs). �at least 10 to 1.. �probably 20 to 1.. �
Note: Rice farming in China 150 : 1.
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6% of petroleum goes to agriculture in the U. S.
That alone tells you your numbers are way off.
| Quote: |
Average mountain bike mpg is somewhere between 300 to 600 mpg(gasoline
equiv). � Racing,.road only bikes post even higher numbers.. �
124,000 BTU per Gallon of gasoline * 252 Calories per BTU / 1000 (kcal
food calories) �~= 31,250 kcal.. (food calories).
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/energyexp.htm
31,240 / [220(calories per half hour) �*2] * 16(km/hr) == ~1136 km per
Gallon of gas equiv.
Meanwhile the best airliners get ~60mpg pp.. (miles per gallon per
passenger).
|
The Boeing Dreamliner gets 125 passenger miles/gallon, earlier
aircraft 100.
| Quote: |
A lot of it depends on your speed. �If you stay below 15 mph you
really don't need to eat that much more.
Given the agriculture multiplier..
�The Biker is likely to cross the country using less than 1 gallon of
fossil fuel.. � Meanwhile a jet liner will consume 33 galons of jet
fuel.. (min) ..
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The RAAM cyclists that stopped at Safeway were _not_ eating feed corn.
Bret Cahill |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
� Yes. But surprisingly, an electric bike is more efficient.
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Not too surprising when you consider that a human has a much greater
range.
Bret Cahill |
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T. Keating
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:05:43 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
<BretCahill@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
At the other extreme a RAAM cyclist averages 350 miles/day and eats
25,000 calories/day. Since the farmer needs 36 gallons of petroleum
to grow enough food for a RAAM cyclist to make it across the country,
a net savings of 12 gallons would be possible by flying on a
Dreamliner.
|
A gallon of gasoline contains.. ~30,000 kcal.. A farmer is able to
produce significantly more than amount in the crop kcal. (solar
energy inputs). at least 10 to 1.. probably 20 to 1..
Note: Rice farming in China 150 : 1.
Average mountain bike mpg is somewhere between 300 to 600 mpg(gasoline
equiv). Racing,.road only bikes post even higher numbers..
124,000 BTU per Gallon of gasoline * 252 Calories per BTU / 1000 (kcal
food calories) ~= 31,250 kcal.. (food calories).
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/energyexp.htm
31,240 / [220(calories per half hour) *2] * 16(km/hr) == ~1136 km per
Gallon of gas equiv.
Meanwhile the best airliners get ~60mpg pp.. (miles per gallon per
passenger).
| Quote: |
A lot of it depends on your speed. If you stay below 15 mph you
really don't need to eat that much more.
|
Given the agriculture multiplier..
The Biker is likely to cross the country using less than 1 gallon of
fossil fuel.. Meanwhile a jet liner will consume 33 galons of jet
fuel.. (min) .. |
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V for Vendicar
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote
| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
|
Yes. But surprisingly, an electric bike is more efficient. |
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Shrikeback
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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"V for Vendicar" <Execute_The_Traitor_In_The_White_House@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:O7e5k.5159$Mc.3089@read1.cgocable.net...
| Quote: |
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
Yes. But surprisingly, an electric bike is more efficient.
|
Does it cause the same swollen prostate problem for the voter
to subsidize? |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
�Yes. But surprisingly, an electric bike is more efficient.
Does it cause the same swollen prostate problem for the voter
to subsidize?
|
You can get a large seat and a fully sprung mountain bike if you're
THAT fat.
Just don't expect to get 15 miles/charge.
Bret Cahill |
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hhc314@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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On Jun 15, 3:10 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
After commuting 13 miles each way for two weeks I'm guessing I eat at
least $2 more/day and it's not some overpriced diet like Adkins. It's
mostly complex carbohydrates I fix myself, less than $1/lb.
Driving by myself would cost $4.50/day.
|
Find an overnight lodging that today cost less than $60, and you're a
magician. Otherwise, you'll be sleeping overnight in a field in sub-
freezing temperatures. When you become ill, as you will, a trip to
the doctor's office will cost you at least $40, not counting the
medications. If you end up in a hospital, figure about $400 a day as a
minimum.
| Quote: |
The bus would be $2/day, about the same as cycling.
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When is the last time that you traveled cross-country by bus, 1926?
Today, a coast-to-coast bus ticket costs $100 or more. Travel by rail
is far more comfortable, but much more expensive.
| Quote: |
The really green way to go would be to get an E bike. Just a few
cents of electricity each day.
|
Actually, electricity costs about the same as gasoline fuel, perhaps
more.
Bret, good luck to you but your economics really suck! :-)
Harry C. |
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John
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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Shrikeback wrote:
| Quote: |
"V for Vendicar" <Execute_The_Traitor_In_The_White_House@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:O7e5k.5159$Mc.3089@read1.cgocable.net...
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
Yes. But surprisingly, an electric bike is more efficient.
Does it cause the same swollen prostate problem for the voter
to subsidize?
|
 Nope. The spuds do that. |
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T. Keating
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:14:36 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
<BretCahill@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Cycling 12 mph for 3 blocks to buy some spuds is obviously going to
reduce overall petroleum consumption and save money compared to firing
up the Expedition.
At the other extreme a RAAM cyclist averages 350 miles/day and eats
25,000 calories/day. ?Since the farmer needs 36 gallons of petroleum
to grow enough food for a RAAM cyclist to make it across the country,
a net savings of 12 gallons would be possible by flying on a
Dreamliner.
A gallon of gasoline contains.. ~30,000 kcal.. ? A farmer is able to
produce significantly more than amount in the crop kcal. ?(solar
energy inputs). ?at least 10 to 1.. ?probably 20 to 1.. ?
Note: Rice farming in China 150 : 1.
6% of petroleum goes to agriculture in the U. S.
That alone tells you your numbers are way off.
|
We waste a tremendous amount of energy..
15 to 1 food energy loss feeding cattle..
7 to 1 food energy loss feeding pigs..
etc..
| Quote: |
Average mountain bike mpg is somewhere between 300 to 600 mpg(gasoline
equiv). ? Racing,.road only bikes post even higher numbers.. ?
124,000 BTU per Gallon of gasoline * 252 Calories per BTU / 1000 (kcal
food calories) ?~= 31,250 kcal.. (food calories).
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/energyexp.htm
31,240 / [220(calories per half hour) ?*2] * 16(km/hr) == ~1136 km per
Gallon of gas equiv.
Meanwhile the best airliners get ~60mpg pp.. (miles per gallon per
passenger).
The Boeing Dreamliner gets 125 passenger miles/gallon, earlier
aircraft 100.
|
bzzzt.. the 787 has yet to be delivered..
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing17jan17,1,461005.story?coll=la-headlines-business
"Boeing again delays first 787 delivery"
"Boeing Co., citing unresolved production problems, said Wednesday
that it would be unable to deliver its first 787 Dreamliner passenger
plane until early 2009 -- more than nine months later than it had
promised airlines."
and
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/07/boeing-rolls-ou.html
Boeing calculates that the 787 will deliver fuel consumption of
approximately 2.4 l/100 passenger-kilometers, assuming average modal
load factors.
Which is just approaching 100 Miles per gallon per passenger..
maybe..
That put's previous generation models in the 80 Miles per gallon per
passenger category.. and the average in 60 range.. ..
| Quote: |
A lot of it depends on your speed. ?If you stay below 15 mph you
really don't need to eat that much more.
Given the agriculture multiplier..
?The Biker is likely to cross the country using less than 1 gallon of
fossil fuel.. ? Meanwhile a jet liner will consume 33 galons of jet
fuel.. (min) ..
The RAAM cyclists that stopped at Safeway were _not_ eating feed corn.
|
.. Who cares about RAAM cyclists..
Cycling is one of the most efficient forms of transportation we have.
P.S... One pound of fat (3500 kcal) can propel a rider 80 Miles. |
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Shrikeback
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4cdb8fab-2c6d-4181-9300-a3cf3c7037da@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
You can get a large seat and a fully sprung mountain bike if you're
THAT fat.
|
Well, if you're that fat, you probably don't
need to worry about getting laid either.
But this is a question about being ruled by
the maternalistic nanny goat fascists. Does
the taxpayer have to subsidize the Viagra
for bikers who are too fat to get laid anyway?
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0302283804005627
Results:
The reported incidence of bicycling related urogenital
symptoms varies considerably. The most common
bicycling associated urogenital problems are nerve
entrapment syndromes presenting as genitalia numbness,
which is reported in 50-91% of the cyclists, followed
by erectile dysfunction reported in 13-24%. Other
less common symptoms include priapism, penile
thrombosis, infertility, hematuria, torsion of spermatic
cord, prostatitis, perineal nodular induration and
elevated serum PSA, which are reported only sporadically.
Conclusions:
Urologists should be aware that bicycling is a potential
and not an infrequent cause of a variety of urological
and andrological disorders caused by overuse injuries
affecting the genitourinary system.
Shouldn't we tax the bikers to pay for their sexually
unhealthy lifestyle? |
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Bill Ghrist
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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hhc314@yahoo.com wrote:
....
| Quote: |
Actually, electricity costs about the same as gasoline fuel, perhaps
more.
|
Use Google: I don't know about electric bikes, but electric automobiles
are generally reported to get somewhere in the vicinity of 3 miles per
kWhr of charge. Comparing that to maybe 30 miles per gallon of gasoline
would put the gasoline costs at about three times that of the cost of
electricity (in the U.S.--even more in most countries, where the
gasoline prices are a lot higher than our present $4 per gallon). |
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Spaceman
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Maximum Cycling Range for Max Fuel Efficiency & Money Sa |
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Bill Ghrist wrote:
| Quote: |
hhc314@yahoo.com wrote:
...
Actually, electricity costs about the same as gasoline fuel, perhaps
more.
Use Google: I don't know about electric bikes, but electric
automobiles are generally reported to get somewhere in the vicinity
of 3 miles per kWhr of charge. Comparing that to maybe 30 miles per
gallon of gasoline would put the gasoline costs at about three times
that of the cost of electricity (in the U.S.--even more in most
countries, where the gasoline prices are a lot higher than our
present $4 per gallon).
|
Yes, that stuff is true..
Simply because an electric motor is far more efficient than a silly ICE
that only turns a crankshaft 1/4 turn per bang if it is a 4 cyl.
But the problem is we need to make the electricity with some sort
of fuel still in spots where there is not enough sun, wind, nor water flow
and then we are back to the non effiecient fuel costs to make
the electricity at all.
What we need is newer ICE's like this one to produce electricity
off the vehicle and just charge the vehicles when needed.
http://realspaceman.spaces.live.com
Such an engine would create anywhere from 10 to maybe even 100 turns
of a generator shaft per bang to produce electricity far more efficient than
a
normal ICE of today.
A current 4 cyl ICE of today could only turn such a generator shaft once
per 4 bangs.
That is pretty sad and a big waste of fuel
a very sad 4:1 ratio
(great for torque but sad for total output)
The Fluid Crankshaft ratio would be more like
1:10
or even
1:100
So, go ahead and start thinking of ways to make the fluid crankshaft ICE
an even better electrical generator that still keeps some of the fuel
conmpanies a bit more happy than solar or wind power does.
:)
--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman |
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