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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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Looking to source a flow control valve for a dancing fountain I'd like
to build in my backyard. I'm hoping to find something common and
cheap from old automobiles. Though, I need linear control...not sure
if that exists in a relatively modern vehicle. My goal is just to
charge a network of PVC with a 1000+ gph fountain pump and place these
actuators right between the fountain heads and the network. My plan
was to interface something from controlanything.com between a midi
controller and the actuators. My fear is that the speed of the
actuator will cost me...as I need to time the actuator movements to
music. Any tips would be much appreciated. |
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Brian Whatcott
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:37:29 -0700 (PDT), aaronlloydpeterson@gmail.com
wrote:
| Quote: |
Looking to source a flow control valve for a dancing fountain I'd like
to build in my backyard. I'm hoping to find something common and
cheap from old automobiles. Though, I need linear control...not sure
if that exists in a relatively modern vehicle. My goal is just to
charge a network of PVC with a 1000+ gph fountain pump and place these
actuators right between the fountain heads and the network. My plan
was to interface something from controlanything.com between a midi
controller and the actuators. My fear is that the speed of the
actuator will cost me...as I need to time the actuator movements to
music. Any tips would be much appreciated.
|
Straight off the top - rather than linear fluidic actuators - you
might consider a two or three on/off parallel array sprinkler valve
set with flow restrictors, providing one / two / four flow rates
which would provide eight linearly increasing flow rates on command.
The price comparison ought to be favorable.
Brian W |
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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Dear aaronlloydpeterson:
<aaronlloydpeterson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e6de55f1-c2e3-48cc-bf1b-216ceecb23e2@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Looking to source a flow control valve for a
dancing fountain I'd like to build in my
backyard. I'm hoping to find something
common and cheap from old automobiles.
|
I don't think fuel injectors will take water, and window washer
pumps are too slow.
| Quote: |
Though, I need linear control...not sure
if that exists in a relatively modern vehicle.
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Just not tolerant of water, and needs high pressure.
| Quote: |
My goal is just to charge a network of PVC
with a 1000+ gph fountain pump and place
these actuators right between the fountain
heads and the network. My plan was to
interface something from controlanything.com
between a midi controller and the actuators.
My fear is that the speed of the actuator will
cost me...as I need to time the actuator
movements to music. Any tips would be
much appreciated.
|
You pump will require positive flow to keep from overheating.
I'd suggest a diaphrgam operated valve for each jet, that bleeds
its flow back to the reservoir. Something like:
http://webcat.ryanherco.com/products/290/210/110/290210110.cfm
Use your controls to use air to pilot the valve closed. So a
small air solenoid valve for each jet.
Then a small needle valve for each jet, so that each jet gets a
good amount of flow.
pump -> manifold -> needle valve -> tee -> jet
+ |
v
pilot valve ->
reservoir
David A. Smith |
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Greg Locock
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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Brian Whatcott <betwys1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:lakd64hthu49lv00qa3anvnfrrcut6gnqh@4ax.com:
| Quote: |
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:37:29 -0700 (PDT), aaronlloydpeterson@gmail.com
wrote:
Looking to source a flow control valve for a dancing fountain I'd like
to build in my backyard. I'm hoping to find something common and
cheap from old automobiles. Though, I need linear control...not sure
if that exists in a relatively modern vehicle. My goal is just to
charge a network of PVC with a 1000+ gph fountain pump and place these
actuators right between the fountain heads and the network. My plan
was to interface something from controlanything.com between a midi
controller and the actuators. My fear is that the speed of the
actuator will cost me...as I need to time the actuator movements to
music. Any tips would be much appreciated.
Straight off the top - rather than linear fluidic actuators - you
might consider a two or three on/off parallel array sprinkler valve
set with flow restrictors, providing one / two / four flow rates
which would provide eight linearly increasing flow rates on command.
The price comparison ought to be favorable.
Brian W
|
That's probably a better bet. The only obvious candidate on a car is the
heater mixer valve - which does not strike me as being likely to have
the frequency response you'll need. Having said that I'm not even sure
that modern climate control systems actually modulate the water flow,
they may just use air blending.
Cheers
Greg Locock |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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I've been doing a bit more research on my backyard bellagio project.
I'm considering a L type diverting valve and mounting my own
actuators. The least expensive valve I've found is $25 on Grainger
but I will continue my search. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1CKG3
This valve has a mounting pad that I can use for a stepper motor
bracket that I can machine myself. If this is a decent way to go I
can mount a stepper motor and keep the cost below $60 per actuator/
valve/bracket. I'm going to check around at hardware stores for other
inexpensive mixing valve options that might have flow characteristics
smooth enough to correct in my software (I will probably be correcting
the flow characteristics anyway to sync the valve with the midi
values).
I am planning on using a charged manifold as suggested but using the
diverting valves to send water back to the pump input. If I send the
relief into the reservoir I'm worried about the turbulence disrupting
the surface of the water too much. I figured this created an
opportunity to create a pump supply side manifold with a large filter
over its reservoir inlet. With all heads open there is no feedback
and water is drawn through the large filter screen into the big supply
manifold. With all heads closed, the pump would be supplied with 100%
feedback. This is really just a large submerged quiet zone I guess.
It could be constructed out of a 3' length of 10" diameter PVC and
house the pump itself.
Recently found video of an MIT fountain project here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S21scBIZhN0 I'm not going to make my
heads dance just yet...variable flow only.
Please feel free to provide suggestions as I'm only a programmer.  |
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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Dear aaronlloydpeterson:
<aaronlloydpeterson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c45effa-2a9d-4fc4-99a1-4c1360e9cfb9@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
I've been doing a bit more research on my
backyard bellagio project. I'm considering
a L type diverting valve and mounting my own
actuators.
|
Actuators will be hundreds of dollars for the "horizontal" 3-way
valve you have selected.
| Quote: |
The least expensive valve I've found is
$25 on Grainger but I will continue my
search.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1CKG3
This valve has a mounting pad that I can use
for a stepper motor bracket that I can
machine myself. If this is a decent way to
go I can mount a stepper motor and keep
the cost below $60 per actuator/ valve/bracket.
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A stepper motor will not turn this valve. Not enough power.
Turning torque is "foot pounds" when new. A gear box will blow
your budget, and reduce operating times to a few seconds to turn
on, and few seconds to turn off.
....
| Quote: |
I am planning on using a charged manifold as
suggested but using the diverting valves to send
water back to the pump input. If I send the relief
into the reservoir I'm worried about the turbulence
disrupting the surface of the water too much.
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The pump adds heat, the flow controls will strip gasses out of
the water. You feed that straight back into the pump suction,
and you will destroy the pump. Put in a little waterfall,
complete with "coral reef", and the returning water will get a
chance to degas and cool, and the surface will not be disturbed
too much beyond the "reef".
Davids A. Smith |
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Mechanical Magic
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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| Quote: |
Please feel free to provide suggestions as I'm only a programmer.
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I like the idea of a "charged manifold".
A little 1000 gph pump only needs 160 watts, and isn't going to heat
up the water.
I dislike the idea of using three way valves, especially with a
stepper. Big enough steppers with drivers is going to be pricey.
I would run the pump full time, into the manifold, and use a
backpressure regulator (relief valve) to maintain a flow, so the pump
won't stall or cavitate.
For the valves, a dishwasher solenoid valve can be had for about $20.
If you want variable flow, then add an air chamber at the outlet, and
Pulse Width Modulate the solenoid. (Should be easy in software.) ;-)
Sounds like a bit of fun.
Dave |
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: flow control valve actuator for fountain |
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"Mechanical Magic" <google@mechanicalmagic.com> wrote in message
news:1b5b7649-a4d5-40c4-bfe7-8166cec49d68@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Please feel free to provide suggestions as I'm
only a programmer. :-P
I like the idea of a "charged manifold".
A little 1000 gph pump only needs 160 watts,
and isn't going to heat up the water.
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Yes, it will. Especially if plumbed in plastic, and short
circuited back to the suction of the pump. Heat it up enough to
outgass...
What about and "organ pipe" arrangement, with air blown in on the
branch of a tee, air being triggered by a solenoid valve. The
air would loft a short spurt, before it actually "sprayed", and
would refill pretty quick from below.
It could simulate individual notes, just not sustained ones...
David A. Smith |
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