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Bret Cahill
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With Hig |
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We already see people eating local because of higher transportation
costs.
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
A million ton super tanker uses an engine only 4X more powerful than a
10,000 ton train and a 10,000 ton train only needs 60X more power than
a 20 ton semi-rig
Consider that bunker runs half the price of diesel and large 2 stroke
vessel engines are 20% more efficient than tractor diesels, the ship
is 300X more fuel _cost_ efficient than vehicle transportation.
To be sure, the ship takes much longer and containerized cargo isn't
going to be as efficient as bulk cargo but the fact remains:
Moving stuff from China to Long Beach costs about as much in fuel as a
150 mile trip by train or a 30 mile trip in a rig.
As fuel costs increase, these numbers will dominate all other costs.
Electrification of railroads could alter one part of the equation but,
other than that, these numbers will not change and must be considered
in any private or public sector transportation planning.
Bret Cahill |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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| Quote: |
We already see people eating local because of higher transportation
costs.
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
A million ton super tanker uses an engine only 4X more powerful than a
10,000 ton train and a 10,000 ton train only needs 60X more power than
a 20 ton semi-rig
Consider that bunker runs half the price of diesel and large 2 stroke
vessel engines are 20% more efficient than tractor diesels, the ship
is 300X more fuel _cost_ efficient than vehicle transportation.
As fuel costs increase, these numbers will dominate all other costs.
|
While this is all true, the cheap labor is probably more of a factor.
I doubt that Chinese workers have the benefits that even minimum wage
earners in western societies have.
If reasonable trade balances were enforced, Arab peoples would be
living quite well. |
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Dr. Julian. G. Ek
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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On Jul 13, 1:52 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
We already see people eating local because of higher transportation
costs.
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
A million ton super tanker uses an engine only 4X more powerful than a
10,000 ton train and a 10,000 ton train only needs 60X more power than
a 20 ton semi-rig
Consider that bunker runs half the price of diesel and large 2 stroke
vessel engines are 20% more efficient than tractor diesels, the ship
is 300X more fuel _cost_ efficient than vehicle transportation.
To be sure, the ship takes much longer and containerized cargo isn't
going to be as efficient as bulk cargo but the fact remains:
Moving stuff from China to Long Beach costs about as much in fuel as a
150 mile trip by train or a 30 mile trip in a rig.
As fuel costs increase, these numbers will dominate all other costs.
Electrification of railroads could alter one part of the equation but,
other than that, these numbers will not change and must be considered
in any private or public sector transportation planning.
Bret Cahill
|
China is using subsidy system to raise up its competitive advantage.
Labor costs are no longer significant. Have you been to China? Or you
obtain your information from elsewhere?
I am a Malaysian Chinese, first discipline in Management, second
discipline in International Business, third discipline in technology
management.
J |
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Dr. Julian. G. Ek
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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On Jul 13, 6:00 am, jess225...@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
We already see people eating local because of higher transportation
costs.
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
A million ton super tanker uses an engine only 4X more powerful than a
10,000 ton train and a 10,000 ton train only needs 60X more power than
a 20 ton semi-rig
Consider that bunker runs half the price of diesel and large 2 stroke
vessel engines are 20% more efficient than tractor diesels, the ship
is 300X more fuel _cost_ efficient than vehicle transportation.
As fuel costs increase, these numbers will dominate all other costs.
While this is all true, the cheap labor is probably more of a factor.
I doubt that Chinese workers have the benefits that even minimum wage
earners in western societies have.
If reasonable trade balances were enforced, Arab peoples would be
living quite well.
|
NO.
Labor coasts are no longer significant in China. Living costs in
Shanghai is as high as New York in certain areas.
j |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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| Quote: |
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
Good question
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
Faulty answer.
Better possibilities: 1) Oil prices are not driven by market
|
The OP issue wasn't about what's driving fuel prices.
The OP issue was that spiraling fuel prices would indeed increase
localization, i. e., no more California strawberries in Florida, but
would not choke off globalization as was suggested in a recent _London
Times_ article that claimed world oil production could drop
precipitiously in as little as 8 years.
Bret Cahill |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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| Quote: |
We already see people eating local because of higher transportation
costs.
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
A million ton super tanker uses an engine only 4X more powerful than a
10,000 ton train and a 10,000 ton train only needs 60X more power than
a 20 ton semi-rig
Consider that bunker runs half the price of diesel and large 2 stroke
vessel engines are 20% more efficient than tractor diesels, the ship
is 300X more fuel _cost_ efficient than vehicle transportation.
As fuel costs increase, these numbers will dominate all other costs.
While this is all true, the cheap labor is probably more of a factor.
|
The OP issue wasn't about _why_ overseas trade has been taking place.
The OP issue was that spiraling fuel prices would indeed increase
localization, i. e., no more California strawberries in Florida, but
would not choke off globalization as was suggested in a recent _London
Times_ article that claimed world oil production could drop
precipitiously in as little as 8 years.
Bret Cahill |
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Bret Cahill
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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On Jul 12, 9:58�pm, "Dr. Julian. G. Ek" <dr.julian...@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 13, 1:52�am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
We already see people eating local because of higher transportation
costs.
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
A million ton super tanker uses an engine only 4X more powerful than a
10,000 ton train and a 10,000 ton train only needs 60X more power than
a 20 ton semi-rig
Consider that bunker runs half the price of diesel and large 2 stroke
vessel engines are 20% more efficient than tractor diesels, the ship
is 300X more fuel _cost_ efficient than vehicle transportation.
To be sure, the ship takes much longer and containerized cargo isn't
going to be as efficient as bulk cargo but the fact remains:
Moving stuff from China to Long Beach costs about as much in fuel as a
150 mile trip by train or a 30 mile trip in a rig.
As fuel costs increase, these numbers will dominate all other costs.
Electrification of railroads could alter one part of the equation but,
other than that, these numbers will not change and must be considered
in any private or public sector transportation planning.
China is using subsidy system to raise up its competitive advantage.
Labor costs are no longer significant.
|
The OP issue wasn't about what makes China competitive.
The OP issue was that spiraling fuel prices would indeed increase
localization, i. e., no more California strawberries in Florida, but
would not choke off globalization as was suggested in a recent _London
Times_ article that claimed world oil production could drop
precipitiously in as little as 8 years.
Bret Cahill |
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ZerkonX
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Globalization As Well As Localization Will Continue With |
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:52:47 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote:
| Quote: |
So why is China still shipping stuff to the U. S.?
|
Good question
| Quote: |
It's due to the extraordinary efficiency of vessel transportation as
compared to, say, trucking strawberries from Fresno, CA to Plant City,
FL.
|
Faulty answer.
Better possibilities: 1) Oil prices are not driven by market forces but
by corporate/political need, two different things 2) Both socialist China
and the 'capitalist' US, can centrally manage pricing outside of the
force of a 'free market'. 3) The goal of today's one world economy is to
'level out' prosperity, so those that have less have a little more and
those that have more have much less. The difference going to the usual
suspects. |
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